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	<title>Comments on: Manifold Publishing</title>
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	<link>http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/2009/11/03/manifold-publishing/</link>
	<description>Terribiliter Magnificasti Me Mirabilia</description>
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		<title>By: Cryptopur</title>
		<link>http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/2009/11/03/manifold-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>Cryptopur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/?p=92#comment-66</guid>
		<description>Ooooh Oooh Oooh! I LOVE screwtape as an example - well said.

The recent title Red Faction was a good example of the kind of thing you describe where you start to wonder half way through if you&#039;re working for the bad guys...very well done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooooh Oooh Oooh! I LOVE screwtape as an example &#8211; well said.</p>
<p>The recent title Red Faction was a good example of the kind of thing you describe where you start to wonder half way through if you&#8217;re working for the bad guys&#8230;very well done.</p>
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		<title>By: ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/2009/11/03/manifold-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/?p=92#comment-65</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s an example.... Train by Brenda Brathwaite.

 http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/conferences/tgc_2009/6021-TGC-2009-How-a-Board-Game-Can-Make-You-Cry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s an example&#8230;. Train by Brenda Brathwaite.</p>
<p> <a href="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/conferences/tgc_2009/6021-TGC-2009-How-a-Board-Game-Can-Make-You-Cry" rel="nofollow">http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/conferences/tgc_2009/6021-TGC-2009-How-a-Board-Game-Can-Make-You-Cry</a></p>
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		<title>By: ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/2009/11/03/manifold-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/?p=92#comment-64</guid>
		<description>Totally on the same page with you there.  I&#039;m not looking to explore or applaud moral ambiguity or claim that absolute truth is a matter of perception.  However, the window of your perception sure dictates how you see the world to be, regardless of what is the actual truth of the matter.   As a story teller you have the power to pull back the curtain.  

Maybe a better way to say it is, &quot;a character that presented himself as a &#039;good guy&#039; is actually just a deceiver or deceived&quot;

Think of the voice of Screwtape letters.  The &#039;protagonist&#039;s&#039; uncle presents the other side as the &#039;enemy&#039; and we quickly discover that the &#039;enemy&#039; is God.  And you start to discover all the tactics that Screwtape uses to lead God&#039;s people astray.  What if the main character of one story is &#039;Wormwood&#039; and in another story, one of the families he inflicts. 

Or what if your protagonist is lured into serving in an organization that at first blush seems entirely benign, but as the character gets drawn deeper in, they start to see the cracks and the darkness that lies beneath.  

As the story teller, you get to start with the lies the protaganist is told, and in some cases, the player agrees with, and then reveal the truth of the matter.

What is interesting about games in particular is that you ask the player to take part in it rather than just observe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally on the same page with you there.  I&#8217;m not looking to explore or applaud moral ambiguity or claim that absolute truth is a matter of perception.  However, the window of your perception sure dictates how you see the world to be, regardless of what is the actual truth of the matter.   As a story teller you have the power to pull back the curtain.  </p>
<p>Maybe a better way to say it is, &#8220;a character that presented himself as a &#8216;good guy&#8217; is actually just a deceiver or deceived&#8221;</p>
<p>Think of the voice of Screwtape letters.  The &#8216;protagonist&#8217;s&#8217; uncle presents the other side as the &#8216;enemy&#8217; and we quickly discover that the &#8216;enemy&#8217; is God.  And you start to discover all the tactics that Screwtape uses to lead God&#8217;s people astray.  What if the main character of one story is &#8216;Wormwood&#8217; and in another story, one of the families he inflicts. </p>
<p>Or what if your protagonist is lured into serving in an organization that at first blush seems entirely benign, but as the character gets drawn deeper in, they start to see the cracks and the darkness that lies beneath.  </p>
<p>As the story teller, you get to start with the lies the protaganist is told, and in some cases, the player agrees with, and then reveal the truth of the matter.</p>
<p>What is interesting about games in particular is that you ask the player to take part in it rather than just observe.</p>
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		<title>By: Cryptopur</title>
		<link>http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/2009/11/03/manifold-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-63</link>
		<dc:creator>Cryptopur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/?p=92#comment-63</guid>
		<description>Oh - one other quick note Ryan. You say &quot;All of the sudden, the...protagonist...is revealed to be something different.&quot;

I have a personal objection here that I&#039;m struggling to put into words but I&#039;ll try. It seems to me that modern story telling has embraced a notion that all stories have different sides and no one side is actually &#039;right&#039; or &#039;true.&#039;

It&#039;s one thing to make this assertion about life where our ability to know all the facts is severely limited. But I think a huge part of what makes story valuable is its ability to lay out an image of right and wrong, good and bad, foolishness and wisdom. The best stories aren&#039;t only a recitation of a given character&#039;s perceptions but also include a kind of moral omniscience that teaches us something about ourselves, the world or God. I don&#039;t imagine Soma will be telling any stories where the good guy can be seen as the bad guy by changing the narrative perspective. That&#039;s not to say that I only want to tell morality tales that lack complexity or ambiguity.

I guess I just deeply believe in Truth and I hope my tales will present Truth as a real and knowable aspect of reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh &#8211; one other quick note Ryan. You say &#8220;All of the sudden, the&#8230;protagonist&#8230;is revealed to be something different.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have a personal objection here that I&#8217;m struggling to put into words but I&#8217;ll try. It seems to me that modern story telling has embraced a notion that all stories have different sides and no one side is actually &#8216;right&#8217; or &#8216;true.&#8217;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s one thing to make this assertion about life where our ability to know all the facts is severely limited. But I think a huge part of what makes story valuable is its ability to lay out an image of right and wrong, good and bad, foolishness and wisdom. The best stories aren&#8217;t only a recitation of a given character&#8217;s perceptions but also include a kind of moral omniscience that teaches us something about ourselves, the world or God. I don&#8217;t imagine Soma will be telling any stories where the good guy can be seen as the bad guy by changing the narrative perspective. That&#8217;s not to say that I only want to tell morality tales that lack complexity or ambiguity.</p>
<p>I guess I just deeply believe in Truth and I hope my tales will present Truth as a real and knowable aspect of reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Cryptopur</title>
		<link>http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/2009/11/03/manifold-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-62</link>
		<dc:creator>Cryptopur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/?p=92#comment-62</guid>
		<description>Hi Ryan, well said. I guess my thought about not telling the same story over is a matter of not overdoing just what you describe. There needs to be some filter in place that allows me to determine if another angle is truly synergistic with the others or just an exercise in narcissism. :)

Tolkien is an interesting example here. LOTR is widely loved and applauded but somewhere between The Silmarillion and Children of Hurin the voice that was speaking to a much broader audience became one that was really only interesting to a very few hard core fans.

Of course Tolkien himself probably write those other tales more out of his own desire to explore Middle Earth than to have another best seller and I can completely support that, so long as everybody knows that&#039;s the nature of the tale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ryan, well said. I guess my thought about not telling the same story over is a matter of not overdoing just what you describe. There needs to be some filter in place that allows me to determine if another angle is truly synergistic with the others or just an exercise in narcissism. <img src='http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Tolkien is an interesting example here. LOTR is widely loved and applauded but somewhere between The Silmarillion and Children of Hurin the voice that was speaking to a much broader audience became one that was really only interesting to a very few hard core fans.</p>
<p>Of course Tolkien himself probably write those other tales more out of his own desire to explore Middle Earth than to have another best seller and I can completely support that, so long as everybody knows that&#8217;s the nature of the tale.</p>
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		<title>By: ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/2009/11/03/manifold-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 08:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/?p=92#comment-61</guid>
		<description>I guess what I&#039;m trying to say, with out repeating what you just said, is that the Voice and perspective of another character in the same story can flip it on its head.  

All of the sudden, the character you thought was the protagonist the whole time in Episode 1 is revealed to be something different.  

The ways that you can explore character and motivation and dramatic need with the same story/myth is very intriguing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess what I&#8217;m trying to say, with out repeating what you just said, is that the Voice and perspective of another character in the same story can flip it on its head.  </p>
<p>All of the sudden, the character you thought was the protagonist the whole time in Episode 1 is revealed to be something different.  </p>
<p>The ways that you can explore character and motivation and dramatic need with the same story/myth is very intriguing.</p>
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		<title>By: ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/2009/11/03/manifold-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 08:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/?p=92#comment-59</guid>
		<description>I love the idea of creating a universe/reality and then letting its inhabitants tell their stories using different art forms/mediums.

You mention that you&#039;re not interested in telling the same story a second or third time with a different medium.

But, if each inhabitant in this world has a different perspective of the same story or set of events, the stories are different.  And the way in which each of these inhabitants come into contact and interact with eachother creates a very rich mythology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the idea of creating a universe/reality and then letting its inhabitants tell their stories using different art forms/mediums.</p>
<p>You mention that you&#8217;re not interested in telling the same story a second or third time with a different medium.</p>
<p>But, if each inhabitant in this world has a different perspective of the same story or set of events, the stories are different.  And the way in which each of these inhabitants come into contact and interact with eachother creates a very rich mythology.</p>
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		<title>By: Cryptopur</title>
		<link>http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/2009/11/03/manifold-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>Cryptopur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/?p=92#comment-57</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re right John. There is defiantly the risk of throwing too much out all at once and I think the way to walk that line is to look at the question first as an artistic one, and only later as a marketing opportunity.

If we can publish the parts of the story in a way that is comprehensive and integrated from the get-go we&#039;ll be able to provide a bundle of pieces that naturally fit into something that doesn&#039;t feel as though  the second, third or fortieth pice is just a cynical effort to sell another product.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re right John. There is defiantly the risk of throwing too much out all at once and I think the way to walk that line is to look at the question first as an artistic one, and only later as a marketing opportunity.</p>
<p>If we can publish the parts of the story in a way that is comprehensive and integrated from the get-go we&#8217;ll be able to provide a bundle of pieces that naturally fit into something that doesn&#8217;t feel as though  the second, third or fortieth pice is just a cynical effort to sell another product.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/2009/11/03/manifold-publishing/comment-page-1/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somagames.com/somaniloquy/?p=92#comment-56</guid>
		<description>I think several of the major publishers are coming around to this way of thinking.  For example, EA&#039;s development of the Dead Space IP includes the game, anime, and comic.  Microsoft has developed the Halo franchise in a similar way almost since day one (with the release of the Halo novels), and has seriously ramped up their media blitz over the past few years - adding in comics, ARGs, and the upcoming anime films.  

While I think the possibilities are awesome, and the opportunities for storytelling are just about limitless, I think it&#039;s also important not to over-saturate the market.  Jim Collins, author of Good to Great, has said that &quot;a &#039;stop doing&#039; list is more important than a to do list&quot;.  While he&#039;s not speaking specifically of video games, the basic principle of &quot;less is more&quot; can be true across all mediums.  Using Microsoft as an example again, the argument can be made that they have, in fact, over-saturated the market with Halo.  Being a huge fan of the franchise, I&#039;d disagree, but not everyone feels the same way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think several of the major publishers are coming around to this way of thinking.  For example, EA&#8217;s development of the Dead Space IP includes the game, anime, and comic.  Microsoft has developed the Halo franchise in a similar way almost since day one (with the release of the Halo novels), and has seriously ramped up their media blitz over the past few years &#8211; adding in comics, ARGs, and the upcoming anime films.  </p>
<p>While I think the possibilities are awesome, and the opportunities for storytelling are just about limitless, I think it&#8217;s also important not to over-saturate the market.  Jim Collins, author of Good to Great, has said that &#8220;a &#8216;stop doing&#8217; list is more important than a to do list&#8221;.  While he&#8217;s not speaking specifically of video games, the basic principle of &#8220;less is more&#8221; can be true across all mediums.  Using Microsoft as an example again, the argument can be made that they have, in fact, over-saturated the market with Halo.  Being a huge fan of the franchise, I&#8217;d disagree, but not everyone feels the same way.</p>
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